Curse

Tyla · Jan 03, 2009, 05:18 PM // 17:18

["coward!"]
[expel hexes]
[empathic removal]
[song of purification]
[crippling anthem]
["incoming!"]

Oh, and Incoming is mainly for when you've got other physicals with you who can't have IMS + IAS up for themselves. It can be used with "Fall Back!" to support your casters too, but even though it's an elite version of the skill, it still packs a punch while allowing you to take advantage of other decent skills, such as "GftE!", "Brace Yourself!" and so on.

If you're worried about the armour reduction, keep in mind that you've still got a shield, meaning only 4 armour is taken away leaving you with 86 armour. If you're not speccing into a shield attribute, it's 12 armour leaving you with 78 armour. That is still a lot of armour to work with. Also keep in mind that it's comparable to that of a Warrior against elemental damage, and this armour reduction can be removed. Another thing to look at is the fact Assassins have only 70 armour.

As for frontlining Paragons, yes, they are a lot weaker than the other classes in terms of frontlining now because they can have an IAS and IMS active all the time too.

Bobby2 · Jan 03, 2009, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Ok, mathematically that is pretty hard to do in most cases, depending on command attribute. Palm strike has a four second recharge and a .75 activation, and you'd have to use it 4 or 5 times to get rid of "Can't Touch This!", which takes about 19 seconds to do, by which time he'll probably be able to throw it up again.

[palm strike] fails, the 5 energy is wasted, but they sure as hell DON'T have to deal with recharge. Mashing will take PS Sins about 3 seconds to remove [can't touch this] (4 x 3/4s cast time).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Axel Zinfandel

Ok, on a basic level we can say that "Can't Touch This" has become a TINY bit more viable with the buff of Palm Strike...

So... no.

btw energy management on a Para = [go for the eyes] and a non-sucky team.

[go for the [email protected]][holy [email protected]][blazing [email protected]][merciless [email protected]][fall [email protected]][stand your [email protected]][soldier's [email protected]][lead the [email protected]]

I had no trouble handling this, easily able to use energy skills on recharge. Getting adrenaline is easier for a spearchucker than a melee guy, that may have played a part in your own experiences.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

but to everyone that is still stuck on hating CTT, you have no idea what you're talking about. It's not like you are using it for the functionality, its the matter of having a 5en perma shout.

Are you bad, or just lazy?

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

[riposte]

Never mind that question

Brilliance · Jan 04, 2009, 12:32 AM // 00:32

stand your ground, lead the way, and fallback? REALLY? you need all of those?

PS APPARENTLY PEOPLE STILL MISSED THE FACT THAT I SAID AB. speaking to Tyla who posted horrible elites for AB(not counting Coward).

Bobby2.......sins waste 25 energy just to get palm strike off(which has never happened to me) and then i use [Riposte]. You're fail.

I'm sick of negative comments because it's just different from the norm. Sorry if I'm sick of playing the same classes over and over.

Unreal Havoc, i support what you said, but it just makes the game more interesting to change things up even if a warrior or sin is a little better( although a sin couldnt kill me and i've killed just as many warriors as warriors that killed me.).

Bobby2 · Jan 04, 2009, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

stand your ground, lead the way, and fallback? REALLY? you need all of those?

No. I already mentioned earlier [lead the way] should be all you need to keep up [soldier's fury]. Reading comprehension ftw.

[fall back] is the reason anyone would consider a Para (primary or secondary) in AB. At all.

[stand your ground] is there because I'm a nice guy and I can afford it. btw, for a Para it's not about 'what you need', it's about what would be useful to the party as a whole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

PS APPARENTLY PEOPLE STILL MISSED THE FACT THAT I SAID AB. speaking to Tyla who posted horrible elites for AB(not counting Coward).

I, for one, didn't miss it. In fact the build I posted is meant for AB. I will now gladly hear from you why the Elites Tyla suggested are bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

Bobby2.......sins waste 25 energy just to get palm strike off(which has never happened to me) and then i use [Riposte]. You're fail.

1: Sins have Critical Strikes, and Soldier's Fury is useless. 'Waste' isn't the word.
2: What's Riposte going to do to stop a PS chain?

3: No need to get personal. I might just take it out on your Para (if it's never happened to you.. we obviously haven't met).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

I'm sick of negative comments because it's just different from the norm. Sorry if I'm sick of playing the same classes over and over.

If you're going to play an underused class at least do it well.

Unreal Havoc · Jan 04, 2009, 03:23 AM // 03:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

Unreal Havoc, i support what you said, but it just makes the game more interesting to change things up even if a warrior or sin is a little better( although a sin couldnt kill me and i've killed just as many warriors as warriors that killed me.).

I kill sins with my Para too, Shield Bash does wonders for messing up their chains. Then I make a mess of them with my Spear.

Bobby2 · Jan 04, 2009, 09:30 AM // 09:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

Shield Bash does wonders for messing up their chains

Heeey now there's a skill worth using

Tyla · Jan 04, 2009, 10:00 AM // 10:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

PS APPARENTLY PEOPLE STILL MISSED THE FACT THAT I SAID AB. speaking to Tyla who posted horrible elites for AB(not counting Coward).

If I posted horrible elites for AB then how did I miss the fact that you said AB?

Hurr Durr.

Also, most Paragon elites suck. Having strong removals will heavily benefit. Cripple is a strong condition in an enviroment based on movement. "Incoming!" allows a secondary speed boost that's partywide, and it's also not running out allowing melee to effectively have an IAS and an IMS active at the same time. The removal skills keep pesky shit like Faintheartedness and such hexes off you, and if you haven't noticed hexes are pretty much getting more powerful by the update. That, and it's working on everything.

Quote:

Bobby2.......sins waste 25 energy just to get palm strike off(which has never happened to me) and then i use [Riposte]. You're fail.

Critical Strikes, zealous daggers... That, and Shield Bash > Riposte.

Quote:

I'm sick of negative comments because it's just different from the norm. Sorry if I'm sick of playing the same classes over and over.

You are playing the same class if you spec a Paragon as a Warrior. You're effectively playing a Warrior. The only noticable difference now (counting the fact that you can get an IMS/IAS on all classes simultaniously now) is that you look different and have higher armour.

Quote:

( although a sin couldnt kill me and i've killed just as many warriors as warriors that killed me.).

That's because they're bad and don't know when to give up. They're the same people who think they can play a Warriors' Endurance Axe, and Frenzy while spamming Power Attack / Prot Strike under Visions of Regret, Empathy and all sorts of shit.

Arkantos · Jan 04, 2009, 10:05 AM // 10:05

Quote:

I'm sick of negative comments because it's just different from the norm. Sorry if I'm sick of playing the same classes over and over.

There's nothing wrong with doing something out of the box. But when the build you create isn't all that good, people are going to give you negative feedback. If you don't like taking criticism, don't post a build.

orgeron · Jan 04, 2009, 05:12 PM // 17:12

omfg bobby.. you just waisted 15 nrg do give your party members 24 more armor Ö.o

if you got a monk that is attacked, in hell that he's going to stand still when he can kite his way out of less dmg. if that was a joke, it's not funny! as a para you don't waist that kind of nrg if you cant get it back (and when you have 4 man team, you whon't). never used fall back, never will.

"coward" yes, fun, but I have tested both and soldiesr if more fun.

if i whant to remove hexes or suport in any ways, i would go monk. the hole motivation stuff in pvp, nah, i'll take spear and kill stuff :P

paras work awsome in a group of 8, but in AB where you'll be 4 men only, no ty... motivation need more than that, and it will work a hole lot better with other paras. your 24 armor skills is to expenciv and don't last that long, same with fall back (that one is better, but not good enough)

the point with soldiers fury is... that you don't need to reley on your team mates to do what you are suposed to do :P

soldiers fury: can kill alone but you a helping hand will not hert you.

your build (and other suport para builds): no party = your purpose in ab is not ferfiled and you will fail.

now, yes you whant your party to stick together but if you go with random ppl or your team mates get killed (that can happen even if you got an awsome monk or an awsome para) you will fail and need to regrope in a diferent way then with soldiers fury.

I will test both brilliance and bobbys build, just to see for my self how this will work.

edit: yes, i have tested both and i wasn't suprised about the results.

brilliance: this was fun yes, i had a good healer and this did nice dmg, but as you'll cast SF before battle, i saw that the other meeles will go in and do some dmg before i came to them. thats good in one way and bad in an other. the bad thing was that i haden't much left to kill, but i helped anyways. the good thing is, the others will taget the ones that is in front of the team, so you'll not get killed as fast as the others :P AND your a para, and not that many attacks paras first (becouse they thing paras suck)

bobby: OMFG! nooo! ofcours a ranger/warrior/assa/rit and even a freaking smiter monk will do more dmg than your build! you'll waist so much nrg that you can't keep SF up or even kill a freaking pet! you mister fail big time!

changed my mind, like this build

(tough, spear will kill more, have you test it yet?)

reposed was kind of good for keeping me alive some more secs and do more dmg, and that is not what i expected :P

gogo brilliance, i'm on your team all the way

Unreal Havoc · Jan 04, 2009, 06:18 PM // 18:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

paras work awsome in a group of 8, but in AB where you'll be 4 men only, no ty... motivation need more than that, and it will work a hole lot better with other paras. your 24 armor skills is to expenciv and don't last that long, same with fall back (that one is better, but not good enough)

I'm going to stand up here and say 3 synergised Paragons and a Monk are pretty good in AB and can be quite difficult to kill. You could say this about any synergiesed team, but Paragons in my opinion even more so due their buffs, high armour, DPS, etc. You're forgetting to take into account the defense of shrines, rolling mobs etc aswell. When they're used right Paragons can be a great asset in AB.

Also no Fall Back in AB? I have to ask why? You should take a IMS anyway so you may aswell take one that benefits not just you but everyone else around you aswell. It can sometimes mean the difference between winning and losing in AB.

Tyla · Jan 04, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Orgeron, I really think you have to understand the concept of a Paragon. They were meant to support others, and keep in mind that there are 3 random teams - meaning you are also helping them cap and catch up to people in the process.

orgeron · Jan 04, 2009, 06:36 PM // 18:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Unreal Havoc

I'm going to stand up here and say 3 synergised Paragons and a Monk are pretty good in AB and can be quite difficult to kill. You could say this about any synergiesed team, but Paragons in my opinion even more so due their buffs, high armour, DPS, etc. You're forgetting to take into account the defense of shrines, rolling mobs etc aswell. When they're used right Paragons can be a great asset in AB.

Also no Fall Back in AB? I have to ask why? You should take a IMS anyway so you may aswell take one that benefits not just you but everyone else around you aswell. It can sometimes mean the difference between winning and losing in AB.

and i will compleatly agree with you on the para team part, i'm making a pve para team and i was thinking of pvp para team to (not that much ab, but now i will think

) i have seen the para power in group many times, and yes, 3 or even 4 paras in ab can be hard to kill.

haha, well... i can be becouse i play aspenwood more then ab now, and when i playd ab alot, i went for my derv :P

if i have to chose this or attack skill, ill take attack skill, or even anthem of flame, don't like that it's not constand maby :P, but yes it is usefull, and if a play with an other para in ab, i would hope that he brings it :P

orgeron · Jan 04, 2009, 06:43 PM // 18:43

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyla

Orgeron, I really think you have to understand the concept of a Paragon. They were meant to support others, and keep in mind that there are 3 random teams - meaning you are also helping them cap and catch up to people in the process.

yes I know that paras are suporters, bt... i can't stand suporting in pvp, especialy not ab where there is splitups and such...

I know that the are really great suporters in pve, but if you are just 1 suport para in pvp... i'll go monk...

Bobby2 · Jan 04, 2009, 10:40 PM // 22:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

omfg bobby.. you just waisted 15 nrg do give your party members 24 more armor Ö.o

I usually use 11 energy or less.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

if you got a monk that is attacked, in hell that he's going to stand still when he can kite his way out of less dmg. if that was a joke, it's not funny! as a para you don't waist that kind of nrg if you cant get it back (and when you have 4 man team, you whon't). never used fall back, never will.

To take your example of a Monk being attacked:

there are times when he doesn't kite. You know, to cast spells and such. As for energy: do you even know what GftE does?

But it is the last sentence in that quote that ensured me your opinion is irrelevant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

if i whant to remove hexes or suport in any ways, i would go monk. the hole motivation stuff in pvp, nah, i'll take spear and kill stuff :P

Who said Motivation? Command ftw.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

the point with soldiers fury is... that you don't need to reley on your team mates to do what you are suposed to do :P

If you can't trust your party, you're better off as something else entirely.

Quote:

Originally Posted by orgeron

I will test both brilliance and bobbys build, just to see for my self how this will work. (I thought you would never take 'Fall Back!'?)

edit: yes, i have tested both and i wasn't suprised about the results.

...

bobby: OMFG! nooo! ofcours a ranger/warrior/assa/rit and even a freaking smiter monk will do more dmg than your build! you'll waist so much nrg that you can't keep SF up or even kill a freaking pet!

OK so. If you have actually tested it (which I cannot help but doubt) I'd like to know what changes you made, and why you fail so horribly where I succeed. Especially the part where you implied my build has less damage output than Brilliance's sword thingy was hilarious. Thanks for that.

Also with which attributes have you tested poor Brilliance's build? It's spread 4-wide iirc

Brilliance · Jan 05, 2009, 02:38 AM // 02:38

I'd like to just say that a 4 attribute spread isn't bad for this build, but in general i would agree that 4 spread is noob.

The shield bash could easily replace riposte and i find that to be a very positive comment. It was criticism that offered a way to improve it without just saying 'riposte sucks'.

I won't try the sprear build because I don't have GWEN and some of the best spear skills are in GWEN. If I had GWEN i would probably play the spear, as i think ive said before.

Fallback is an amazing skill, but for 4 people and the recharge/energy, i would rather just take my own IMS. If you had 3 or 4 paragons on the other hand, i would totally agree with taking fallback because you have enough skill slots to easily fit it in.

And Bobby2, i'm done with the personal stuff. I just just wasn't liking the negative critism towards the entire build as a whole. Your build looks fine to me, except I wouldn't take Stand your Ground. I would still take CTT because of low energy and it's just fun to mess with touch skills, even if stand your ground has a better effect for the entire team.

Tyla, your skills are for a support paragon which is not really wanted in AB (imo). I'm sure you could come up with good reasons to run a support para in AB, but i find its not really fun/worth it.

Bobby2 · Jan 05, 2009, 04:15 AM // 04:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

I'd like to just say that a 4 attribute spread isn't bad for this build, but in general i would agree that 4 spread is noob.

The shield bash could easily replace riposte and i find that to be a very positive comment. It was criticism that offered a way to improve it without just saying 'riposte sucks'.

Well, sorry to be blunt, but [riposte] does, in fact, suck. Not even considering the fact that you'd take a 4th spec just for this skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

Fallback is an amazing skill, but for 4 people and the recharge/energy, i would rather just take my own IMS. If you had 3 or 4 paragons on the other hand, i would totally agree with taking fallback because you have enough skill slots to easily fit it in.

What?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brilliance

And Bobby2, i'm done with the personal stuff. I just just wasn't liking the negative critism towards the entire build as a whole. Your build looks fine to me, except I wouldn't take Stand your Ground. I would still take CTT because of low energy and it's just fun to mess with touch skills, even if stand your ground has a better effect for the entire team.

Energy schmenergy. Use more [go for the eyes]. But to each their own.

Zodiac Meteor · Jan 05, 2009, 07:07 AM // 07:07

AB paragons would be awesome if the would play it right half the time.
I keep telling my teammates to bring [save yourselves].

But they say it won't work for some odd reason. Sure you only have 4 people and it only affect's party members. [[save yourselves] can do wonders and yet no one uses it. I tell them to put it into their bar and they won't. Then they spam on the screen like idiots
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
EVEN when someone bring it they won't use it. Seriously, WTF, it's so good that it could be an elite skill. Yet, they call me a noob and say it won't work. I think it's better than my Wammo with the amazing [[heal [email protected]].

BTW, you might want to avoid proving Bobby2 wrong. To my knowledge, and learning things the hard way. He's pretty leet.
[[cant touch [email protected]] fails... badly... personal experience that my 1vs1 toucher can easily kill [[cant touch this] paragon. I spam the skill 4 times (THERE IS NO CASTING TIME TO A FAILED SKILL) Then use [[offering of blood] and a few seconds later BOOM.

However my toucher is beat by a pet mastery ranger.
[[fall [email protected]] does wonders. AB is about speed.
[[Riposte] Only works with a sword, so you switch weapons to use a crummy skill?

Don't feel bad about the negative comments. I've gotten HELL from my
[Gladiator's Defense] + [riposte] + [Deadly Riposte] build. I got people saying I should NEVER play warrior. They will kick me if they see my build. Etc.
But, in that wall of negative comments was suggestions. Which, like it or not the suggestions will make you a better player. As you get better, the more fun it will be. Six months I had 23 Fame. But in 2 weeks I got 156. How? With help from leet people.

With trust from my guild know that I am a good player. I can goof off with silly things and guildy's will join you. Having fun instead of being a noob.

"When you are a newb playing a noobish build. You are a noob. When your a leet player playing a noob build. You are fooling around and having fun."

Getting suggestions is the best part of guru.

Unreal Havoc · Jan 05, 2009, 11:07 AM // 11:07

I hope that was sarcasm about Save Yourselves, because it's a PvE only skill...

orgeron · Jan 05, 2009, 11:16 AM // 11:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby2

I usually use 11 energy or less.

you know that less is... less then 11? like 10... plz... tell my how you can get less nrg if your party consised of 4 ppls. it's a party shout... 1 nrg for each party members is... 4 nrg if all of them stick together... you can't get less...

personly, i whant a vid where you can see how you use your skills :P gave it to a guilie and he to whoulden use it... he asked how much nrg you had (and atribute plz...)

lets say you will pay 11 neg for this (not good enough to use...) and an warrior or what ever is attacking him, he will kite away, cast spells, kite and so on... 11 nrg in 16 -18 sec while kiting, he'll get hit like... not that many times... and if you got a freaking monk, why have a suport para :P if you whant to relive som presure of the monk... go rit or what ever... an other monk if the case is that your monk can't handel it himself... you will help him more if you kill the fu--er that is pting presure on your monk... in stead of having this waiting game to so who can survive the longest...

yes, ok... if i go para in ab, i will take fall back instead of anthem of flames... but only becouse i don't need my nrg outside of battle.

sure... bobby is surly good in what he's doing, but, it is better to take a bad dmg dealer than a bad suporter/healer. if the healer sux but you have great dmg on a player, the player will die if the haven't self heal that heal like hell becouse the healer will die if he sux. but if you have a great healer and not that good dmg dealer, you will atleast holed them back and keep them from caping.

if i was your monk, i whould take gardian on myself and kite instead of releing on that skill. :P

orgeron · Jan 05, 2009, 11:21 AM // 11:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodiac Meteor

AB paragons would be awesome if the would play it right half the time.
I keep telling my teammates to bring [save yourselves].

But they say it won't work for some odd reason. Sure you only have 4 people and it only affect's party members. [[save yourselves] can do wonders and yet no one uses it. I tell them to put it into their bar and they won't. Then they spam on the screen like idiots
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
"This is PvP!"
EVEN when someone bring it they won't use it. Seriously, WTF, it's so good that it could be an elite skill. Yet, they call me a noob and say it won't work. I think it's better than my Wammo with the amazing [[heal [email protected]].
.

that made me lol